Install with many broken messages


(Jim Shriner) #21

I don’t know if Lubuntu will port back to LTS, but historically, the 'Buntus do tend to backport for LTS versions. Otherwise, what’s an LTS version for? So I think it will likely happen (and hoping that it does).

I trust everything you say about Debian and Buster, as your advice has always been solid for me. But I have no experience to share with Debian Buster, other than Alf is a reliable dude. I DO have some experience using SparkyLXQT, which is based on Debian Testing (which i think is actually Buster right now?), so I just wanted to confirm for livier that SparkyLXQT is a good choice. Perhaps no better than Debian Buster, but I can only speak to Sparky.


(Alf Gaida) #22

try apt changelog lxqt-about or lxqt-$foo in Sparky :stuck_out_tongue:


(Alf Gaida) #23

Just had a short look into sparky - not bad at all - with interesting choices for several things:

  • openbox (fine, ok - i prefer xfwm4)
  • n-m + gnome-applet (ok, my choice is connman+cmst, it’s about taste, but n-m+applet is totally fine, no doubts)
  • seahorse is interesting
  • xfburn is a solid choice
  • qCalculator too - we should recommend qCalculator maybe, at least suggest
  • Skanlite and qCamera (don’t know much about, intresting)
  • the internet section looks fine (don’t know Persepolis and see no reason for Pigdin default)
  • Qmmp + VLC - nice, vokoscreen - really nice, didn’t expect to find it :slight_smile:
  • System tools - ok, Cala is fine, no comment on a few choices, can’t say nothing about, the usual to be expected tools are fine
  • Lightdm is ok, i prefer Sddm, personal firewall - why not?

A few con’s (nothing really serious)

  • why disk-manager when there is gparted already
  • why exim4 - hell, that’s a pretty overkill
  • why nptpd - my suggestion would be the systemd-timedated
  • why rsyslogd - journald is default
  • maybe htop should be installed - when one chose mc

I was a bit surprised to find lxqt-archiver - cool, should work in 99% of the usecases, but i made only one pre-beta release - so a bit ahead of the time. I like it to have beta testers.

Installer - ok, i don’t like to be forced overly to use so called secured passwords - but beside of it the installer is fine. After installation the reboot hangs for the usual 1:30, no clue why - but hey - not really important, the installed system starts fine.

If one like openbox and lightdm Sparky Linux seems to be a really nice and solid choice. The con points one could consider as bias - i can recommend Sparky from what i’ve seen so far.


(Pedram Pourang) #24

Definitely!

Other than that and “n-m + gnome-applet”, the specs you mentioned seem good.


(Jim Shriner) #25

you sly dog!

Your name is occassionally mentioned in the Sparky forums, as a Debian developer and the Siduction developer. Makes sense, as whatever is going on in Sid today will hit Testing soon.

I wasn’t aware that Sparky used nm+applet and lightdm. I thought it was connman and sddm, but I took a look at my Sparky VM and sure enough…you are correct. I must be confusing Sparky with Siduction, which IMO, is the “gold standard” for an LXQt distro.

We had previously spoken about my desire to switch distros from the 'Buntu family of fixed releases to a rolling release distro. That leaves either the Arch family, or the Debian family based on SID or Testing. SID is just too cutting edge for my skillset (IMO!) and I can’t risk that on my business/production machine. Testing seems like a better fit for me, and I’ve been tracking Sparky in a VM for several months now. I’m satisfied with it, and would like to finish the transition, but still need to resolve some issues in my head regarding the Debian way (don’t make a Frankendebian) versus the Ubuntu way (ppa). I’ve been with the Ubuntu family for 10+ years and I’m able to troubleshoot my own system, usually pretty effectively, but my experience is quite limited to Windows (not so much since I made the switch to Ubuntu) and Ubuntu. I’m currently learning that the Ubuntu way doesn’t necessarily lend itself well to Debian’s “best practices”, or to the Arch philosophy, etc…

It’s not really an LXQt discussion, but would it be okay if I PM’d you some questions about how to manage my software on a Debian system, especially when a desired package isn’t available in Debian? I’m onboard with the “don’t make a Frankendebian” advice, but I’m not clear how to accomplish that, coming from Ubuntu. I know you’re a busy guy, but you’ve always provided SOLID advice to me that makes sense. Can I PM you for that discussion?


(Pedram Pourang) #26

Why do you want to use a Debian derivative when you could use Debian itself? @agaida makes Debian’s LXQt packages (and more), so they’re very reliable.

P.S. I’m not a Debian user but was for 8 years. This question comes to my mind when someone talks about a Debian derivative.


(Jim Shriner) #27

Is Sparky a derivative if their repos are Debian Testing? Although they do have some inhouse tools that aren’t Debian, so I can see the derivative argument.

To answer your question, I think I want to go rolling release. If I wanted a fixed release, I’d stick with Lubuntu. I’m not dissatisfied with Lubuntu, other than I’m tired of re-installing my system on about 10 computers every 2-3 years. Although, not sure how much a PITA it will be keeping about 10 household computers up-to-date with a rolling distro. Might have to pick my poison. But I don’t know what I don’t know. I’ll keep pressing forward until the path becomes obvious to me…

Worst case scenario is that I end up sticking with Lubuntu, but I acquired other useful knowledge about other distros, and that’s not a bad thing! :smile:


(Pedram Pourang) #28

LOL! Debian is a rolling distro. How could a non-rolling distro have a rolling derivative? It can’t.

I’d installed Debian only once in the whole 8 years I used it. It’s still on an old laptop, without being updated since I left it. Debian is an excellent distro.


(Alf Gaida) #29

the upcoming debian stable would be a good starting point - not perfect, but okish - testing is fine too, sid need a bit knowledge and patience.

Edit: i would wait until tomorrow, get a debian buster live iso with lxqt (free or non-free, what fit your needs) and just test it.


(Pedram Pourang) #30

Yes! Ubuntu is a Debian derivative too, for another reason.


(Pedram Pourang) #31

@agaida Please answer this irrelevant question: what’s the Qt version of the upcoming Debian stable and when does it come?


(Alf Gaida) #32

Qt is 5.11.3+dsfg-1 - it will be released when it is done. This is a serious eta. Done means: RC bug count = 0, right now:

#d-d-c | RC bug count: 139 | stable RC bug count: 759 | NEW queue: 195 | backports NEW queue: 1 | RM queue: 35 | dinstall: not running

I hope, May/June


(Pedram Pourang) #33

Than means we can bump our min. Qt version and get rid of yesterday’s FTBFS report (if it’s really a FTBFS); doesn’t it?

IMHO, it’s better to take our min. Qt version from Debian stable; if it gets too old, we could bump it but less than it would be weird, at least, and a pain in the ass for devs, “at most”.


(Alf Gaida) #34

I would like to know the reason for the FTBFS - just out of couriosity - keep in mind that bumping the minimum versions don’t change anything important - the only difference will be: It will refuse to start build instead of failing :smiley:


(Pedram Pourang) #35

I disagree and that’s why I said “a pain in the ass”. You want to use a relatively old Qt method but then, you realize that it doesn’t exist in an older version. Some of these methods are very handy but we still can’t use them; instead, we should be continuously cautious. Waste of time, IMO.


(Alf Gaida) #36

I had to rephrase: it change nothing important for now. You are right about our ongiong development.


(Pedram Pourang) #37

OK. I have nothing against that.


(Jim Shriner) #38

Are we talking about the same thing? It is my understanding that Debian Stable is a fixed release (released when ready, but typically every 2-3 years), while Testing and Sid are rolling. Siduction is a fine distro, but just too cutting edge for my comfort level…even the devs suggest “not to install on production machines”. So I was looking at Testing as possibly a better fit for me?

Is the link wrong? If so, please educate me with the correct info. But if the link is correct, how is updating/upgrading Debian Stable every 2-3 years any different than the 'Buntu family? The 'Buntus can be upgraded in place, and in fact, many do; but the recommended best practice is to re-install. How is Debian Stable different from that?


(Alf Gaida) #39
  • RE: stable upgrades - the difference is simple: it works
  • RE: rolling and ‘production use’ - ok. i wouldn’t suggest sid or siduction as main driver for emergency systems like a heart-lung-machine or in atomic plant
  • RE: even the Devs suggest: right, pure self defense, when a user don’t listen and break the system we can say: Hey, you don’t listen :smiling_imp:

#40

Hi, Coming here again, instead a rolling release, I found a rolling topic :laughing:

I had my answer, but since discussion continues, I have once more…

Here I heard about Sparky distro, that I did not know anything about. I did not found it proposed at https://lxqt.org/ Is there a reason ? Would it be a good idea to add it there ? Or there is also too much choices there. Some off them I never heard about, or don’t understand why should I give them an attention. As we say in french, we have the choice and the embarrassment that goes with it, not a poverty ! But for my help, witch would be good for me ? Since I know ubuntu, i can use debian or another derivate, don’t want to look anywhere else. I Use LTS, because I do not want to be obliged to upgrade any six month. I also use PPA, or recently Flatpack or snapd for projets I appreciate. I waste too much time retrieving a system of my own taste every time I have to reinstall it… What could you recommand me ?